Talk:M77 Special Applications Scoped Rifle
So, it's a bolt action gauss rifle. That makes no sense, whatsoever. The bolt action system is outdated, and it uses a stripper clip? LOL -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 02:21, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Bolt action means it uses a bolt to load another round into the chamber, where the coil's work begins. When the bolt is pulled back, there's no shell ejected, only another projectile loaded into the barrel. Its simply an alternative to individually loading rounds. There is nothing unrealistic about a bolt that only loads and does not eject. And if you try and say, "Why not use Semi-Auto?" Then you can explain the bolt that's in the picture. So what if it doesn't seem like something you would use, it is technically my creation and it follows canon, unless Bolts are God-Mods... And what's so wrong with a stripper clip? It's not unrealistic. We used in WWII, so it has to be realistic otherwise WWII is unrealistic. So, what exactly is unrealistic? Because if this is unrealistic, then most of Halo Fanon is unrealistic, as in 90% of it. So, if you would please, remove the Unrealistic banner, otherwise you are declaring the Real World unrealistic. :No, see, stripper clips are out dated. It's like me making a musket or a flintlock for the UNSC. Oh yeah, and one more thing. How did the M99 not hit its target on the first try? It's moving at 15,000 meters per second, you aren't outrunning it, and you aren't dodging that. -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 04:03, 19 February 2009 (UTC) Why do You Have a Problem with My Rifle? How are they outdated? It's an advanced rifle not meant for fast-paced combat. Technically, they're more efficient than inividually loading rounds, which is the only other method of loading the gun, based on the picture. Just think, if were in combat, and you couldn't have standard magazines, wouldn't you rather use a three round clip than have to single-load them? And if that doesn't work for you, I changed the caption on the stripper from nearly identical to fairly similar. Therefore, it is not unrealistic, but is only unconventional in your opinion. And how is the Stripper obsolete? 'Cause its not colored right? If you ask me, i'd love to use any kind of clip over individual loading. If that doesn't work for you, here's a scenario: If an ONI Sniper with an M77 gets noticed from 100 meters away, and there's two enemies charging, he fires and kills the first one, he has to manually insert another round, then fire. Or, he can slip in one Stripper, which is less work for him. If that doesn't reach you, and you really have something against the Stripper, I'll change it. But I don't see what you have against the clip, or me using this weapon for that matter... And don't reply with this: "But they're outdated, so you can't use them. It doesn't matter if its slightly more convenient, its still outdated." And if the picture doesn't have to be accurate to the weapon, then I might as well make two SPARTANS with pictures of George Bush and Rosy O'Donnel because "pictures don't have to be accurate." Now please, remove the Unrealistic banner and I would be quite thankful. This some answer some questions and clear some things up: *Normally, magazines push rounds into the chamber using a "brittle spring." I'm not trying to argue, I'm just wondering how a built-in spring is not of the same qualitly as one used in a magazine. If magazine tech is the same in 600 years, they still use "brittle" springs, meaning that the strength isn't something to be debated. However, I am removing the spring to avoid argument and because I have a slightly more conventional system. *I will change high velocity to hydrostatic shock which causes ballistic pressure waves." I wasn't exactly sure of what to put. *Problem - The scope is too overpowered. **A - I will remove the UV/20x zoom, make Infared possible through an attachment, and as for the dimmer... Though I didn't mention it, the scope has a modernized LCD optical viewer. Like 21st century LCD TV's, the brightness can be lowered/raised, though this would make for a slightly less clear visual. The dimmer would be to remove glare in locations which sunlight may burden the sniper (Sunlight on some colonies would likely be brighter than on Earth). *Problem - The Magazine Issue. **A - See below (Some parts aren't shown proportionally, but that is not the importance of the sketch.) *Problem - Calling the M99's accuracy poor. **A - Agreed, I will remove the issue of accuracy with the M99. *Q - ''"How come, in the 26th century, magazines don't apparently exist?" **A - They do, but if you have a look at the M77's picture, you'll see that directly under the bolt there is a trigger right under it. The only way a standard magazine would work is either if (1.) The magazine comes in from the side (Like the Sten and Type-100 of WWII) or (2.) The magazine is inserted closer to the fron of the gun, then a mini-conveyor belt internally brings the round into the firing chamber. However, this is a bit unreasonable. *Problem - Using bolt action on a caseless weapon. **A - Obviously, in 550 years, standard weapons have computer systems built into them. With an expensive weapon like this, the computer system could be a bit more advanced and compact. In 500+ years, a semi-automated system could be implemented in the weapon. This could be how the loading process works: ***1. At this point, the gun is unloaded. As shown above, a new magazine/clip is put into the slot which is visible on the bottom of the chamber. Upon being inserted, the top round in the M12 clip is already in the chamber. ***2. The bolt is pushed forward into place, sliding the round into firing position. The round is then ready to fire. ***3. Once fired, the operator opens the bolt. A sensor notices that the bolt is opened, and it signals for a sturdy metal piece to push another round in the clip to be pushed up in line with the bolt. The bolt is then slided forward, and round two is ready for firing. Once the bolt is opened, the system takes two seconds to push another round up into place. If preferred, a small metal piece can be slid over the slot in which the cartridge is placed, closing the slot and making for a individually loaded operation. *Q - "...if it can manually load 1 into its internal magazine and only one, how come it fits three rounds on a stripper clip into the same space?" **A - When you manually load a round, you don't use the magazine/slot, you put one round directly into the firing chamber, passing up the magazine. Reply? Can someone please tell me if this new explanation is alright? Unrealistic? How on gods good earth is this unrealistic for the 26th century?-- Are not knives out-dated? Yet we still use them, after thousands of years of being first created. I agree with the stripper magazine part but I honestly don't see whats wrong with the bolt-action system, It's not like it is firing conventional ammunition. Instead it fires a slug, using a modern way of firing. So it's not really out-dated it's just using an old system that obviously works(ed) and works(ed) well. If something works, and works well why not continue to use it? Oh yeah watch your spelling ;). # The bolt action system works by making room for the new projectile by ejecting the old casing. With kinetic slugs, there is no casing, smart guy. # There's everything wrong with the bolt action system. It's old, and time consuming. # Knives are out dated. Do you see people screaming "FIX BAYONETS" anymore? # It's using an out dated system that sucked back then with even modern equipment, negating its use, and making it suck even more. -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 23:54, 21 February 2009 (UTC) Since someone edited this before I was able to post my return argument, I give up 'cuz I don't feel like trying to make a valid point against what seems like deaf ears. I had something good too, maybe later I'll try and retype it. :| -- More Change Well, if you look, there is still a bit of space, and in the M12 Mag, there's only three rounds. So, if you just load it slightly with an angle, a three-round clip can fit with ease. And, now that I think of it, modern tranquilizers use a bolt, yet do not eject. They fill a similar role to the M77, except with shorter ranges and are non-lethal. Both are intended to subdue single targets then they're job is done, except one puts you to sleep and the other turns you into human lasagna. And Ajax, comparing 21st century normal sniper rifles to the M77 doesn't really work. The role of a long range gauss rifle differs a bit from standard snipers, like the SRS99. The SRS99 and current SR's sometimes are able to hit a fixed target from one mile away, but the M77 and M99 are intended to make people into spaghetti from one mile away. So, at that distance, the M77 might as well just single load since it takes a few seconds to charge up do to power constraints. So, how about this: I take out all mentionings of a clip because semi-auto isn't necessary with this model since the fastest rate of fire is one round every fourteen seconds. On average, a round can be loaded in anywhere from 3-8 seconds, depending on the dexterity of the operator. I don't really think there's a reason to have a magazine, I was just trying a new innovation of old tech meeting new. So, if I remove mentionings of a clip, will this page finally be not unrealistic? P.S. Sgt.Johnson, what makes you think you have the right to edit my page? What I don't get is, for all intents and purposes, the diagram above that you provided represents a standard clip. A stripper clip doesn't have a spring or any other method of pushing a round into the chamber. That is the weapons job. Since your clip implements one, I highly doubt it is actually a stripper clip. Simply put, a stripper clip is in all ways inferior to a regular magazine. So why not just use a regular magazine? I don't mind if the rifle is bolt action, even if there is no casing to eject, but a stripper clip just makes no sense at all to me. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 07:32, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Actually, I guess it wasn't a stripper after all... ever. I actually didn't know what it was before, but there is no longer a magazine as said above... The disclaimer on the article basically says do not comment on the information in the article until said so since about half of the information on the article is no longer valid. But, I originally intended delete the spring before putting in any mentionings of the clip. So, Ajax, I am not going to argue because I agree with your post. Will it be finally ok if I remove all mentionings of a clip then do the individual round loading right into the firing chamber through the use of a bolt? Afterall, the gun takes fourteen seconds to recharge so I don't see anything wrong with it. P.S. Sorry about the link, I thought that was free for the community to use, but I guess pages require the template for that. P.S.S. Please don't remark on the P.S. because I did apologize and anyone saying something like "Yeah you should have known better" doesn't really help either cause. READ I have/will be rewriting the entire page, therefore NCF is no longer necessry, unless of course the new article is also NCF